> It is somewhat characteristic of our times for people to describe themselves as ‘spiritual, but not religious.’ I have often thought of myself as religious, but not very spiritual. I tend to approach religion intellectually and have no problem affirming or critiquing certain theological propositions or dogmas of various creeds.
I also am intellectually inclined. I'm part of a two-person team at my parish that teaches adults who, like you recounted, ask about exploring Catholic Christianity. While I'm bad at the trivia and pop-Christianity stuff, I become, quite naturally, the person who can have the philosophical discussions with those who crave growing closer to God through their gift of intellect.
This intellectual grappling with God seems to make its way into my published content, too. I'm grateful for the gift of my intellect and my logic-heavy connection to the Holy Transcendent, even though I lack other psychological traits that have helped others find the same God.
Like Sister Dorothy, I also would've asked you about prayer (it's one of the first things we go over: what is and isn't good prayer). You call yourself a convert; I'm a revert 😅
We're each blessed to have encountered all the people who helped us in some big or small way to eventually encounter God.
A delightfully thought provoking essay... the subject matter being one of immense interest to me... I imagine it depends greatly on one's personal definition of the two aspects in consideration, but I have typically considered myself to be far more spiritual as opposed to religious. And by spiritual I mean in the context of seeking a personal relationship with God rather than any prescription to the more orthodox mechanisms of any organized religion (and I have investigated the tenets of J, C and I in great detail) with their trappings of rules & regulations, applied stigmas to those not in their 'club" and prescriptive dogmas.... Still I question... What is the genuine truth of the matter?... along that line of inquiry I have found and ordered a copy of the book you mentioned, Jones, R.M.. A World Within... looking forward to the read... and perhaps future discussion... Thank you for shinning a light on a possible path forward.
One of my favorite quotes from Meister eckhart is built on the unity of inner and outer macro and micro and expresses it with the surprising last clause:
When... the soul is aware that it is looking at God, loving him, and knowing him, that is already a retrogression.
That was great! If I ever make it to England I want to go to your Digger festival. Also sounds like some English unions do a good job of maintaining working-class cultural traditions. Is the Wigan referred to the same as Orwell wrote about?
Pleased it was of interest.Ironically I now live on Crete so I've only got back for a couple of the festivals but all our children and grandchildren still live in Wigan, which is indeed the town of Orwell's road to the pi, In facthe pier is no more than a jetty on the canal, where the coal barges were moored and unloaded. As for the union reference I should perhaps dig out and revise a history of the small professional association of youth workers we unionised in 1979 and the radical democratic 'horizontal' constitution we adopted. After a coup this experiment came to an end and hierarchical relations restored.
> It is somewhat characteristic of our times for people to describe themselves as ‘spiritual, but not religious.’ I have often thought of myself as religious, but not very spiritual. I tend to approach religion intellectually and have no problem affirming or critiquing certain theological propositions or dogmas of various creeds.
I also am intellectually inclined. I'm part of a two-person team at my parish that teaches adults who, like you recounted, ask about exploring Catholic Christianity. While I'm bad at the trivia and pop-Christianity stuff, I become, quite naturally, the person who can have the philosophical discussions with those who crave growing closer to God through their gift of intellect.
This intellectual grappling with God seems to make its way into my published content, too. I'm grateful for the gift of my intellect and my logic-heavy connection to the Holy Transcendent, even though I lack other psychological traits that have helped others find the same God.
Thanks Dominic. If I had run into you my conversion might have taken two decades less! I think I needed to encounter Sister Dorothy though…..
Like Sister Dorothy, I also would've asked you about prayer (it's one of the first things we go over: what is and isn't good prayer). You call yourself a convert; I'm a revert 😅
We're each blessed to have encountered all the people who helped us in some big or small way to eventually encounter God.
A delightfully thought provoking essay... the subject matter being one of immense interest to me... I imagine it depends greatly on one's personal definition of the two aspects in consideration, but I have typically considered myself to be far more spiritual as opposed to religious. And by spiritual I mean in the context of seeking a personal relationship with God rather than any prescription to the more orthodox mechanisms of any organized religion (and I have investigated the tenets of J, C and I in great detail) with their trappings of rules & regulations, applied stigmas to those not in their 'club" and prescriptive dogmas.... Still I question... What is the genuine truth of the matter?... along that line of inquiry I have found and ordered a copy of the book you mentioned, Jones, R.M.. A World Within... looking forward to the read... and perhaps future discussion... Thank you for shinning a light on a possible path forward.
Thanks Anthony. I hope you enjoy the book.
One of my favorite quotes from Meister eckhart is built on the unity of inner and outer macro and micro and expresses it with the surprising last clause:
When... the soul is aware that it is looking at God, loving him, and knowing him, that is already a retrogression.
MEISTER ECKHART
Your words remind me of Ian mcgilchrist
For starters: https://archive.org/details/the-master-and-his-emissary-the-divided-brain-and-the-making-of-the-western-world/page/n9/mode/1up
Thanks for the article. I didnt know about Winstanley. I think I should take a look now.
My first impression of Berens' book is that it is very interesting ... thanks again ... I added the reference to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._H._Berens
Thank you.
W.D. I've posted a rambling response over on Winter Oak. Best as ever, Tony
That was great! If I ever make it to England I want to go to your Digger festival. Also sounds like some English unions do a good job of maintaining working-class cultural traditions. Is the Wigan referred to the same as Orwell wrote about?
Folks can easily see your comment and cool links by hitting the Winter Oak link at the bottom of this post.
Pleased it was of interest.Ironically I now live on Crete so I've only got back for a couple of the festivals but all our children and grandchildren still live in Wigan, which is indeed the town of Orwell's road to the pi, In facthe pier is no more than a jetty on the canal, where the coal barges were moored and unloaded. As for the union reference I should perhaps dig out and revise a history of the small professional association of youth workers we unionised in 1979 and the radical democratic 'horizontal' constitution we adopted. After a coup this experiment came to an end and hierarchical relations restored.
Apologies for the typos. The reference to Tonys substack is misleading. I started to set one up and stalled.
Thanks Tony, I’ll take a look.